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David Frum and Richard Perle

Frum is former assistant to President Bush and a former White House speechwriter who helped coin the phrase "axis of evil." Perle is a former assistant secretary of defense under Reagan, and a member of President Bush's Defense Policy Board. The two have been influential in helping to shape foreign policy for the Bush administration. They have collaborated on the new book An End to Evil: How to Win the War on Terror.

44:46

Other segments from the episode on January 8, 2004

Fresh Air with Terry Gross, January 8, 2004: Interview with David Frum and Richard Perle; Review of Michael Jackson's album “Number ones.”

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